Hometown revival: She left the LA ad world to help her rural hometown community thrive

This episode is sponsored by Visit LivCo. Livingston County, New York is the heart of the Genesee River Valley, home of Letchworth State Park, and westernmost gateway to the Finger Lakes. Make LivCo your basecamp for one-of-a-kind hiking, dining and more. Plan your escape at www.visitlivco.com and follow along on Instagram @visitlivco

I am excited to invite you to my conversation with Melissa Hughes. Melissa and I met through Urban Exodus, as she was a dedicated reader in the early days of the project. When living in Los Angeles, she would often pursue the stories on the website during her lunch breaks, dreaming of her own escape. 

After a few years of planning, scheming, and rooftop gardening, Melissa and her husband took a leap of faith and left LA  to return to her childhood stomping grounds in rural Western New York. When Livingston County last year made the decision to move their tourism office to the local chamber of commerce, they offered Melissa the role as director of tourism.  

In our conversation we speak about Melissa's experience moving back to her hometown, finding purpose through your work, the urban/rural divide, rural gentrification and rising costs, and the power of art to transform.

This is a story about rural revitalization, returning to your hometown, and prioritizing quality of life and family connection.

Read more about Melissa and see photos from life in Livingston County urbanexodus.com/blog

Transcript

Alissa Hessler: 0:00

Today's episode is sponsored by visit live Co. Livingston County New York is the heart of the Genesee River Valley, home of Letchworth State Park and western most gateway to the Fingerlakes. Make live co your Basecamp for one of a kind hiking, dining and more, plan your escape at w w w dot visit live co.com and follow along on Instagram at visit live Co. That's V i SITLIVCO.

Melissa Hughes: 0:33

One of the biggest takeaways for me about moving to a small community is this sense that you are enough just as you are. And that was a huge weight off my shoulders in a big city. Unless you were very special. You probably won't make a dent. And here the impact you can have in a small community is just endless.

Alissa Hessler: 0:58

Have you ever dreamed of making a radical shift? What does it take to build a more intentional life? What is gained from reconnecting with yourself with community and with the natural world? I'm Alissa Hessler. I've spent the last decade meeting with people all over the world who have made remarkable transitions in their lives. How do they do it? What did they sacrifice? What have they learned? Stepping away from convention isn't easy. But we all have the power to reclaim the things that we've lost, to slow down to change course to create the life we want for ourselves and for future generations. The urban Exodus podcast shares, practical advice and inspirational words to embolden and guide you on your own journey. These are the stories of those brave enough to venture down the road less traveled. This is the urban Exodus. Urban Exodus is community supported programming, please consider sponsoring an episode or making a contribution so we can keep these conversations going. The easiest way to contribute is to click the support button on the top of urban exodus.com. You can also become a member of the urban Exodus community to peruse our archives of hundreds of photo stories and interviews of people who left city life or subscribe to Apple podcast premium to have access to bonus episodes, or rapid fire interviews with guests and our new mini podcast ditch the city where I answer listeners questions and offer practical advice on a whole myriad of topics. If you have a question for an upcoming episode that you'd like us to consider, please send us a DM on Instagram, or through our contact us page. Thank you for helping me continue to do this work. I couldn't do it without all of you. And if you haven't already, we would really love it if you'd leave us a five star review on Apple podcasts or Spotify, or whatever service you listen on. And please recommend urban access to your friends. I am excited to invite you to my conversation with Melissa Hughes. Melissa and I actually met through urban Exodus because she was a dedicated reader in the early days of the project. When she was living in Los Angeles, she would often read the stories on the website during her lunch breaks and dream of her escape. After a few years of planning and scheming her and her husband took a leap of faith and left the advertising world in Los Angeles to become farm managers and Sisters, Oregon. I went and photographed them back in 2018. After a few years in Oregon, Melissa decided it was time to return to her childhood stomping grounds in rural Western New York. She managed her mother's medicinal herb farm, and was then offered the role of director of tourism for Livingston County. Instead of taking the more traditional tourism approach of focusing on advertising and marketing. Melissa is focused on business and economic development. By offering grants education and consulting services, she helps new and existing business owners expand their customer base and attract more visitors to the area. She feels extremely grateful and fulfilled in the work because she is helping strengthen the local economy and create more opportunities, jobs and prosperity. This is a story about rural revitalization, returning to your hometown, and prioritizing quality of life and family time. Okay, so I'm really excited to have on the podcast today. Melissa Hughes and Melissa, we met Gosh, was that like 2019 or 2018 When you were living in Sisters, Oregon?

Unknown: 4:58

That's right. Yeah, I think it was two Thank you.

Alissa Hessler: 5:01

So we were going through Oregon, and we photographed you and your partner for the project. And then I kind of failed and still haven't gotten it up on the website. But I have all the pictures and they're going to be included in this podcast. But that was your baby step into country living. And so I'm really excited to have you on because since then, you've had two children. You've now moved back to your childhood stomping grounds. So first off, I'd love if you would just share a little bit of your personal backstory, where you grew up, the paths you've taken that have led you to where you are now.

Unknown: 5:40

Yeah, sure. So I grew up in Western New York, kind of in the Finger Lakes region, but really, I was more of a suburban Rochester kid that was our closest city, small city. And we always had family out here in Livingston County, so Geneseo. In particular, one of the small villages was our backyard. We were out here felt like every weekend, my mom and my sister and my aunt much my family was involved in the equestrian scene riding horses, which was a really beautiful thing to do out here. And I moved away for college, and then spent some time in the Virgin Islands, spent some time in South America and made my way out to Los Angeles where I spent about 10 years. So a big pivot, when I finally ended up back here in 2018.

Alissa Hessler: 6:33

What was your life like in Los Angeles? And why did you choose that particular city,

Unknown: 6:39

it was a silly reason. I had spent some time in the Virgin Islands and loved the beach, love the warm weather, lovely sunshine, and I wasn't quite ready to give that up yet. So when I was moving back stateside, I wanted to pick somewhere warm and sunny, where I knew I could still have the beach in the ocean as something to do. In my free time. I'd love to

Alissa Hessler: 6:59

know what your kind of career path has looked like when you were living in the city and kind of the pivots that you've made to make this life work for you.

Unknown: 7:09

Yeah, so when I when I was in Los Angeles, I started at the very bottom rungs as executive assistant and admin in a talent agency and then over to an advertising agency. And from there kind of worked my way up into the recruiting track and made my way into a Director of Talent position. And that role I was able to do remotely. So while I was living in LA, with my partner, I was subscribed to modern farmer magazine, I was reading all the urban Exodus blogs, planning my escape, we actually turned over the lot next to our apartment, there was just an abandoned lot. And we turned it into a really vibrant garden, we were growing all sorts of produce and lots of veggies. And I was bringing in huge zucchinis and kale to my, you know, tech company office every day. And that was really fun. So when we had the opportunity to move to sisters, I actually left recruiting for a little bit, took on a job as a branch manager, which was a big, big pivot, but such an incredible learning experience. And so rewarding to be working outside and you know, very tactile hands on work day in, day out. So that was a big pivot for me, but but one that I really welcomed. But the recruiting was a great lifeline back to Los Angeles. So I kind of kept that going, both in Oregon. And then also when I moved back to Western New York here for quite some time. And that was wonderful. It was great to feel like I had that tied to the big cities still that I had those relationships intact, and that I was able to provide for my family as well. And I started freelancing with local economic development office here and pivoted into my now director of tourism role.

Alissa Hessler: 8:57

Okay, so there are a couple things that I want to explore there. The first, I think that there are a lot of people who are considering making a move, but you know, you said it was a lifeline. It was a safety net for you to work remote. For anybody that's listening right now who's currently living in a city and wanting to try on a different place or a different way of living. What steps would you recommend they take to kind of either transition their existing job into something that they could telecommute in, or seek telecommuting opportunities? Because I think that sometimes, especially if you, it's daunting to figure out how to get a telecommuting position. And that's such an easy way to step into another location.

Unknown: 9:44

Yeah, absolutely. I think no matter what, it's a challenge, but what I love, one good thing that's coming out of this awful pandemic is that remote work has become a lot more normalized and companies are really Really, a lot of them are amending their policies to allow for remote work to allow for a hybrid, where you're part time in office part time, wherever you want to be. So I think that that is one silver lining of this global pandemic is that a lot of companies are really seeing their their employees demand this remote work idea. And leaning into that. So I think the first thing you could do is if you have an existing job that you think has the potential to be a remote or hybrid opportunity, talking with your employer about that opportunity, seeing if it's something that they support? If not, is there another company within your industry who would support that, and maybe, maybe that's the impetus to make a leap. And then I think once you land in your rural community, there are a surprising number of entrepreneurial endeavors you can get into here, which I don't think I expected. But there are a lot of people who have maybe remote work, but they're also taking up side hustles left and right, whether it's, you know, launching a new Airbnb experience that they can do, you know, there's a few graphic designers who are using their skills to freelance for local businesses help get their digital presence up to speed, help them with a new brand identity. So there are definitely ways of being scrappy in your local community. And then I think websites like working not working, or Upwork, some of these that are geared more towards freelancer or remote work lifestyles are really helpful. So definitely, you know, spend a little bit of money up front and become a member of one of those sites and, and, you know, get your work up there.

Alissa Hessler: 11:41

That's really great advice. I also want to kind of go back to when I first met you, which was when you were in sisters, and that was a really big transition for you. You went from working kind of in the tech world to managing a farm, I'd love for you to talk about that farm, what that process was like what the learning curve was and what you were able to do there. Yeah,

Unknown: 12:05

it was a really spectacular opportunity, I think, because I was able to use so many of my for lack of a better term big city skills and apply them to that role in a way I never really thought I would. There was also a huge learning curve. Learning about animal husbandry, we had grass fed Red Angus beef cattle, we were doing CBD hemp, which was a huge learning curve, because it was a brand new industry, very wild west, lots to navigate, lots of hard science and agro ecology to learn. So that was an incredible way for my brain to just expand in a bunch of new directions. And I really loved it. I loved being in the fresh air every day. I loved taking care of animals and working out, like I said, with my hands. I just felt like the people I learned from there had so much integrity and so much grit and so much knowledge that I was really hungry for and they were, you know, very willing and patient and very good mentors.

Alissa Hessler: 13:11

I felt like you had established a really great community in sisters. And I wondered if you wanted to talk a little bit about that community that you fostered there. And it can be a little bit daunting to move from a city to a small community and the steps that you made to build that community there. Yeah,

Unknown: 13:30

I mean, this was a town of 2000 people coming from Los Angeles, that was a big transition. But a couple things that really helped. One we had been vacationing up there for several years leading up to our big moves. So it felt Of course, we were seeing it through the lens of tourists, but it still it felt familiar, felt comfortable. It felt like we knew where our spots were, that we'd love to spend time, the activities that we love to do. And Sisters is a really special community in that. It's incredibly progressive. There are a lot of young, really creative, really hardworking people there, and people of all ages that are just impressive people. It's a very outdoorsy community. So it's quite common to see somebody who maybe looks at five years old, running down the street training for an ultra marathon. And I think that that outdoor fitness health minded energy was really, really exciting and appealing. We called it the roof rack town because every car had a roof rack with multiple sports on it at all times and all seasons. And so the people there loved being outdoors and they loved inviting you along with them. And so for us, it was just so much fun to you know, take up that country schemee skiing and learn a little bit about that go on a trail ride. I went out with a friend who was a very experienced farmer. You also interviewed Sara Lee and and her partner tall and moved cattle Across 30,000 acres with them on horseback, which was just an incredible experience. So the people there were just open arms, always with a smile, always with a little bit of an eye roll like, guests. You haven't done this before. Hmm. And but I found them to be just so warm and welcoming that it was a really, it was very easy to make friends there, which I wasn't sure about. And I was really pleased with that.

Alissa Hessler: 15:25

Well, let's talk about your next step then. So what was the reasoning behind leaving sisters? And moving back to kind of the area where you grew up?

Unknown: 15:38

Yeah, if you would ask me, I don't know, six years ago, if I would ever end up back here, I probably would have said, No, I'm never leaving the west coast. But things changed when we got pregnant, actually. And I realized that, for me, having my family an 18 hour travel day away, because of all the small airports that you have to hop in between, was just going to be a really hard thing when we were entering this new chapter of life. And I really wanted, particularly my mom to have, you know, a close relationship with this kid. And now the two kids. So it was, in retrospect, a bit of a rash decision, we ended up driving across country when I was about six months pregnant at that point, it was a bit of a rush job. But I missed the community and sisters, I missed some of the, you know, opportunities that were there, it was such a special place, and always will be. But I think being back home, here was the right move. We landed in June of 2019. Right before, you know, the global pandemic, and we were able to hunker down on my mom's farm, help her with figuring out what she was going to do with that land, which was an exciting opportunity. And then also watch the relationship grow between her and my partner, the other family members here in the area. And of course, my daughter when she was born.

Alissa Hessler: 16:58

I remember looking at pictures that you were posting during the pandemic, and just feeling so happy that you had planted yourself near family because I think that a lot of people wanted to be closer to family at that point. It was kind of a reevaluation. I think it's interesting, because there's this kind of like narrative around returning to your hometown, or returning to where you grew up. And I wondered if you wanted to talk a little bit about that, because you laughed. I know, I mean, I feel the same way. It's this weird thing. Like, why do we have this narrative about, you know, returning home? And where does that come from?

Unknown: 17:39

Yeah, I know, I think for a lot of people, probably myself included, you know, certain moments, you feel like, maybe you failed, and that's why your homes. And and that is such a, it's the wrong story. I think something that is a little hard about returning home is that when you move away, you give yourself opportunities to kind of reinvent yourself, and put yourself in a new paradigm, a new worldview, a new circle of friends, a new career. And moving back, it says if time kind of froze when you were in high school. And so everyone, you're meeting again, still remembers you as that person that you were in high school, that person you were in middle school whenever you left. So kind of allowing everyone to go on the journey together, like no, we've all grown up, it's maybe been 10, maybe even 20 years. There's a lot that's happened in between, then. And now. I think that can be a bit of a challenge to the ego, and really take some time to embrace. But then you also find like I've connected with a friend that I had in elementary school, and it's like we picked up right where we left off. And then there are other friends who we've just kind of drifted apart and led very different lives and are operating from very different worldviews now, and that's fine, too. But coming home is it's interesting, for sure. But I think overall, by and large, it's been a really warm and positive experience.

Alissa Hessler: 19:13

Yeah, I think it's interesting there just so many people who are like, Oh, well, you know, I don't think that I could go home for those exactly. You articulated it perfectly. It's like this, all of a sudden you are whoever you were, when you left and and kind of breaking those molds and showing that time moves on and people change. And I think that that can be a really amazing experience to reconnect with people from when you're younger. So when you first moved back to New York, you started to work on your mom's farm. Could you tell us a little bit about that experience? I know your mom was going through a big life transition at that point.

Unknown: 19:49

My stepfather had passed away in 2018. And she was kind of left with this large piece of land and she wasn't sure what to do with it if it was a law. have, you know, pack it in, throw in the towel and get a little apartment somewhere? Or is this land worth keeping and doing something interesting with? Or is it just something you mow a couple times a year. So she was in a real period of flux when we came back here. She is an acupuncturist. She's a really talented, traditional Chinese medicine practitioner. She's an herbalist. She has an immense knowledge. And so she found herself really being drawn to growing medicinal herbs that she could then use for formulas for her patients that she sees right on farm here. And so I was interested in that business plan. That idea was very novel, a lot of the herbs she's growing aren't grown really anywhere else in North America. So there's a lot of trial and error. It's not like spreading cow corn on the field with a 99.9% germination rate, a lot of these plants have to be babied. And they don't like one area, so you have to pick them up and move them to a different area with different soil conditions. It's been a really incredible learning experience, and really humbling one, as we kind of figure out, how do we do this at scale to make this farm viable. So having the opportunity to work alongside her was really special, especially as I was pregnant. And then with my newborn on my back, or, you know, sitting on a blanket, well, we harvested herbs, it was really amazing. And we also got to work with the wolf programs, the worldwide opportunities on organic farms. And so even through the pandemic, we were very careful, we made sure that everyone was you know, quarantined and vaccinated when that was possible. But we had a lot of farm interns come out and stay over the course of the season. With us on the farm, which was so much fun. So engaging, it was like running a summer camp. And we also were giving, they were largely kids who had been living kids, they were like in their 20s. They were largely young people who had been living in cities, and so they were so happy for the fresh air for the space to stretch. A lot of them were feeling very sequestered and very stuck in the city. And so giving them opportunity to walk the fields and walk the paths and be working with medicinal herbs all the time, I think was a really enjoyable one for them. And then we also learned a lot about people management about, you know, organizational skills, all of the things that I was using as a Director of Talent, I had to really apply to running this wolf program. And we didn't nail it every time. But overall, it was a really fun and incredible experience. And every summer since then she's had these Wolfers these farm interns. So I've been interacting with them even now, quite a bit, despite my my full time job off farm.

Alissa Hessler: 22:49

I'd love for you to talk about your partner's journey too, because he's kind of been along with you for the ride. But I feel like has he kept the same jobs consistently through all of these various changes?

Unknown: 23:03

Yeah, so that isn't good story, because I think he's been such a trooper about, you know, going with me on these wild rides and these cross country moves. He's a brand strategist. So he's still working as a freelance brand, strategist, all remote, but I think it has been challenging, particularly when we're living on the farm. That was pretty isolating, because if you work from home on your computer all day, and then there's no one else around you. There's no team. There's no collaborative spirit. It can be pretty isolating, and especially in a pandemic. So after a couple years in the farm, we actually moved into the village here, they're all called villages, which is pretty cute. And now we have neighbors and so you know, he continues to work remote from you know, our upstairs office, on his breaks and go walk through town. He has people he can chat with and grab coffee with. He has neighbors who are constantly lending him, you know, the wheelbarrow, the snowblower, I just decided to mow your lawn because so there's a lot more interaction. I think the socialization made a big difference, which is really nice to hear.

Alissa Hessler: 24:12

Calling all small business owners are you looking to expand your customer base beyond the reach of your local community? Speak to our loyal audience of over 38,000 listeners by sponsoring an episode of the urban Exodus podcast. For more information, visit urban exodus.com/podcast. Now you're living in town I'd love for you to describe your home and your community there. And how living you know away from Los Angeles has impacted your physical, mental and emotional health.

Unknown: 24:49

One of the biggest takeaways for me about moving to a small community is this sense that you are enough just as you are and that wasn't Huge, I don't know, huge weight off my shoulders in a big city, you unless you're very special, you probably won't make a dent. And here the impact you can have in a small community is just endless and inspiring and energizing that way. So I think that has been the biggest mental health boost is just the sense of come as you are, you are enough. And whatever you do is going to make an impact. And it's going to be felt by the community. And it's going to be recognized. And that is quite an opportunity. I really, I really love that. So backing up, we live in a village of about 5000 people, we are close to about 35 minutes away from a major fish airport, which is great. So that was one of my, when I was picking a community it was not only that my family was from here, but also that we would still be able to travel whether for work or for vacation relatively easily. So we're we don't feel too isolated. We're also 35 minutes away from a small but growing pretty vibrant city with a great music scene and food scene. So whenever we're itching for a little bit more arts and culture, we can zip up there. But our house was built in 1875. So it is an endless project, but we love it. We live in a neighborhood just two blocks from Main Street. The neighbors are wonderful. I think everyone romanticizes that, but they really are. It's this quaint little Americana theme here. The other night, we had an outdoor movie night to box or two doors down at the local historical museum. They showed Night at the Museum. And everyone was out there with blankets and pillows and pajamas on the kids and they were serving popcorn, when I had to leave for the hospital. And we couldn't get hold of my mom, when I was pregnant and about to deliver our son, our neighbors came over to watch my daughter. So it's a really wonderful, warm community. And yeah, that just goes a long way for your mental health too. I think feeling like you have those connections, even with relative strangers, that there's a kindness and empathy and a willingness to chip in and help that I maybe didn't feel so much in Los Angeles, even though we have wonderful friends there. It wasn't quite as tight knit of a community. How did you

Alissa Hessler: 27:24

build those bridges in your community? I think sometimes when you move into a small community, it can feel very insular. What did you do to foster that community around you and to meet your neighbors?

Unknown: 27:38

Yeah, so I think it was definitely a multi pronged attack, especially in a pandemic, it was a little bit more challenging. One of the first things is that I was lucky enough to move back home to you know, a relatively familiar place. So my mom was setting us up on friend dates almost before we arrived. And it actually worked out and some of my best friends now are folks that my mom had met and said, you know, you should really meet my daughter and her partner, I think you guys would get along. So I think not being ashamed of just having your your parents Yenta you out and get some new friends that way. Also, I really recommend joining any local community organizations, whether it's rotary or Kiwanis, or the local marketing arm or tourist arm of the community, different clubs and organizations are a great way to kind of embed yourself in the community. And you'll find a lot of rural communities are very service oriented. And there's a huge volunteer population that I can't wait to meet you. So that's a great way to get connected. And then another thing too is if you have a skill set, lend it out pro bono, you know, to small businesses or to you know, people who are maybe meeting a little bit of help with editing their resume, anything that you can do to connect with people that way too. And it'll also feel good to use a familiar skill set.

Alissa Hessler: 28:59

I'd love for you to talk about the job that you are doing now. They almost created the job for you and how you've kind of changed that role and your goals for the future.

Unknown: 29:13

Yeah, I feel like I landed a dream job after being in Los Angeles for 10 years and having you know, so many great opportunities there to come back to a town of 5000 people and land such a killer career path is very lucky. But I had started by freelancing with the economic development organization here and I always say for a small town office, they are incredibly proactive, progressive, hard working, they are the biggest hustlers I know they'd sit in, in any big city and put them to shame with their work ethic and their drive and their attitude. So that was very lucky. That team, my team is very special and when I was freelancing with them, the Director of Tourism roll that had previously lived with the local Chamber of Commerce moved over to their office. And so they started looking around for this new Director of Tourism. And when they initially pitched it to me I, I wasn't sure it sounded like a lot of liaising with tour bus companies and sending out a lot of rap cards and brochures. And I just wasn't sure if that was my bag. But we kind of reworked the position to be less about endless traditional media promoting, and more about building destination assets that not only enhance the tourist experience, but also resident quality of life and future proof or rural area. So that all the sudden changed it. For me, that was a big pivot in what this job could be. And it wouldn't have been possible without this economic development team and how they see opportunities here. So now as Director of Tourism, I get to work very closely with them. on programs like dream of eight which is a small business incubator grant program, live co walls, we just did a giant mural festival that was nine murals, one in each of our nine villages, each buy a different internationally acclaimed muralist mouse, the whole month of July now we have nine beautiful large scale works of public art that are getting a lot of buzz, both from tourists and also from locals who are kind of seeing their community in a new light. So a lot of different projects that I've been involved in that are so rewarding, and selfishly, are creating an even better community for myself, my friends and my family to live in not just tourists and visitors.

Alissa Hessler: 31:43

Where do you get the ideas for the projects that you are creating an initiating? Are you looking to other small communities that have done similar things? And do you have any advice for people who are living in a small community, I've visited so many rural communities where their entire main streets are empty? There's not a single shop open anymore? What advice would you give to people living in those communities on ways to booster small businesses again, and to get people interested in coming to their community? Again?

Unknown: 32:16

Yeah, I think it is challenging. But again, another silver lining of this pandemic is that there is a lot more curiosity about rural living, then, maybe has been in a very, very long time. I think cities were really glamorized and, you know, really seen as the destination for for jobs for finding partners. And now people are starting to explore a little bit slower pace of life, whether they're getting priced out of larger cities, or they're just overwhelmed, stressed, overstimulated. So I think that our small towns are really poised for a comeback. That being said, there's a delicate balance, you don't want to over gentrify a community lift rental prices, and the cost of food and the cost of living beyond what residents can sustain themselves. So it's a delicate balance. But I think the best place to start is to look at a comp plan a comprehensive plan that the community has done, sometimes they're very old, but sometimes they're doing them even as you speak, and then getting involved in those comprehensive plans. And those visioning projects are really helpful to get a sense of what the local residents are looking for, what some of the strengths of local community are. And some of the big opportunities are, I think that's a great way to start your research. Look to both local and state and even federal grant programs as well. There are a lot of particularly federal grants out there right now for rural businesses, for rural connectivity, broadband, for any kind of sustainability practices. So I'd say look to grant programs to get you started as well. We are lucky in this community with this economic development team, that they are grant chasers, and they find all sorts of incredible opportunities to get grant money into the hands of people who have a vision for our business. And not only that, they'll help them with the business plan. They'll help them with access to low interest loans. They'll help them with real estate search and negotiating rental leases, contracts, that kind of thing. So like I said, I think it's we have a really incredible team here. But I think that model exists in other communities as well.

Alissa Hessler: 34:34

I would love for you to talk about you know, if people are interested if they like what they're hearing from you, I'd love for you to talk about your community, what your community has to offer, and ways that they can maybe explore or get plugged in to see what that community is like and if it might be a good fit

Unknown: 34:54

for them. Yeah, so one thing that I'm I'm really proud of as coming As Director of Tourism is that we did a big visual identity shift for Livingston County for the county I'm in charge of. And I think that has given locals and tourists a little bit more sense of place and kind of pride in our community. We are rural, we have nine beautiful little villages with historic Main Streets really charming. There's an old equestrian scene here, the longest running hunt in the country, which is appealing to some, it's a very kind of niche little subculture that I find really fascinating. We have a couple of the Fingerlakes here, which are so beautiful. We're about 10 minutes away from one now. So on hot days, I'll go and work from there and jump in the lake to cool down a lot of outdoor recreation here. And I think we're just starting to really lean into the possibilities for outdoor recreation economy, to kind of keep this rural community really vibrant. But Letchworth State Park is affectionately known as the Grand Canyon of the East. It's a really beautiful state park, it's incredibly clean, and well run, and just gorgeous natural landscape, tons of hikes and waterfalls. So that's a big draw for people here, too, I think we'll see more and more people moving for outdoor recreation opportunities. And for that we're really, really great community.

Alissa Hessler: 36:24

You talked about the delicate balance of, you know, wanting to bring people in wanting to revitalize community, bringing more small businesses in, but then also not increasing the cost of living beyond what people who've lived in that community forever, can afford. And I've seen that being a problem all across the US, especially in communities that have a lot of, you know, cultural and natural outdoor activity offerings. What are some things that you guys are doing

Unknown: 36:53

to ensure that there is that balance, you keep that balance? Yeah, I don't think anyone has nailed it yet. We are looking to other communities and trying to learn from them. We're looking at the increase in short term rentals, and what that can do for home prices and local long term rental rates. Trying to catch that before it becomes a thing. We're also looking at businesses that are very inclusive in all respects. So if they do have, let's say, a more premium offering, they are also able to accept snap or EBT, you know, benefits, they're able to offer their programs on a sliding scale. So we're we're always trying to steer the narrative toward greater inclusivity, so that you're never alienating a resident population, and only favoring tourists, we're only going to be here for a few days. That being said, I do think that there is value in having people who start as tourists and reconsider this community as a place to live, maybe they work remotely. And they're able to bring some of that disposable income into the communities to support local businesses to dine locally, to shop locally, to be patrons of arts and culture and music here locally. It's threading a needle. I know that. And I certainly haven't figured out exactly what the formula is. But we are trying to move forward very intentionally, so that we make sure to increase quality of life for everyone without unduly increasing the cost of living here.

Alissa Hessler: 38:39

It's such a delicate balance beam. And I think there are so many communities, especially in the short term rental space, if there's a big kind of either summer or winter or seasonal tourism window. There are, you know, equity companies coming in and buying houses to turn those into short term rentals and rural communities. And that just completely destroys, available affordable housing, all of those things. So it's like something to be cognizant of and figure out ways so I just wondered how you guys were starting to strategize for that. So that's really good advice for anyone else who's living in a rural community right now that's starting to feel that crunch.

Unknown: 39:20

I think the entrepreneurial opportunities in a rural community, though, around tourism around the outdoor recreation economy, are really interesting. And I think it's a double edged sword. But I think a little bit of healthy increased tourism is not also it's worth noting, it's not about the numbers of people, either. And I've been very we talk with the director of the local state park here we talk with other, you know, conservation teams and villages and the local municipal governments, as well. It's not about numbers. It's about quality of visitors. So it's about people who are going to come and stay a little long. or maybe because they can work remotely and therefore they're more likely to spend time on our main streets keeping those businesses open, they're more likely to consider this as a place to move, they really fall in love with the community, they're more likely to practice leave no trace principles. So all of those things of looking for, you know, fewer better in terms of visitation, people who are here to really enjoy the small towns enjoy the natural resources without exploiting them. And then to our residents. What opportunities does that then offer you? You know, is there a turndown service you could offer and do an incredible job of, of, you know, keeping these short term rentals running smoothly? Is there an outdoor recreation outfitters store, you could open to offer paddle boards and kayak rentals to you know, paddle, the Genesee River. So there are a lot of new opportunities, the traditional rural experience, you know, a lot of folks have kind of hit a ceiling there, because of the modernization of agriculture, because of the consolidation of above, you know, small family farms into large farms. So, there are a lot of opportunities that are now presenting themselves to a rural community that that were not there a few years ago, and I think that is a bonus, as long as it is, you know, balanced with with stable and healthy growth.

Alissa Hessler: 41:23

Diversity is the number one thing people say that they miss when moving rurally. And I know that that's something that you are really striving to create a inclusive, diverse and equal playing field and your community, what steps are you taking towards that? And what steps would you recommend to people who are living and maybe predominantly white rural communities that would like to see greater diversity and inclusion in those areas?

Unknown: 41:55

It's a huge issue. But it is worth noting that diversity does exist in rural communities, it's not at the level that we may have come to appreciate in bigger towns and cities. But I think first taking a beat to acknowledge the rising identities that do exist in your community. And trying to you know, Connect is a great starting place. So there are a lot of organizations here that are working to lift, for instance, there's a large Hispanic, migrant farm or worker population here that can kind of quietly exist under the radar, but getting the organizations that are representative of those people involved with the village comprehensive plan involved with shaping the future of this rural community, and also in the present, providing support systems, providing safe spaces and transport to hospitals into the DMV. There are lots of ways of getting involved with, you know, all sorts of people that do exist and maybe are living, they're just not the most visible faces you see here. So there is that I think there's also, you know, one of the easiest ways to celebrate diversity of all kinds is through arts and music and culture, festivals, food, bringing people together to celebrate one culture or identity through music or culture, food is a really impactful way, and a really great way of normalizing that there are many different ways to live many different ways to experience this, this world. I think inviting businesses to opt in or self identify as a safe space for certain rising identities can be really helpful, because again, it's about representation. It's about a person of a rising identity, or multiple rising identities, to see themselves reflected in the local community. And that can be really helpful when when businesses say, Hey, this is what I stand for, and know that you're, you're safe here. Another thing is inviting authentic storytelling. We work really hard. We think, in the tourism team here. We think representation matters. But we want to be very mindful to do that authentically. So we look to people who are wanting to tell their story, wanting to tell their experience of traveling here of living here, and letting giving them basically giving them a platform to do so. So that it's from their mouths their eyes, and also being humble enough to listen to their feedback when it's great. And when it's not so great and listening to ways that we can improve their experiences. They kind of move through our community.

Alissa Hessler: 44:53

I just wanted to give an enormous thank you to all of you who have made contributions to offset the production costs of this podcast. Just, it means so much to me that you find enough meaning and value to pledge your support to keep this going. If you haven't had a chance to contribute, we've made it really easy for you just click the support button on the top of urban Exodus website, you can also get access to bonus episodes, rapid fire interviews, and our new mini podcast, ditch the city by signing up for our apple podcasts premium. Or you can become a member of the urban Exodus online community where you can access hundreds of photos, stories, interviews, tutorials, videos, and more. Find out more by visiting the membership page on urban exodus.com. Those are just really great ways to first like look, you know, what is already in the community? Who are the leaders that are already in the community that we could give them a seat at the table? And then how can we create safe spaces? How can we talk about things? How can we make it feel like, you know, really wonderful response? Thank you. Media is constantly focusing on this, like ideological and political rifts between urban and rural America. And as someone who's moved between the two spaces, what are your thoughts on this? And do you have any advice for people who are maybe moving from the city and they move into a community that doesn't vote the same way that they do on ways to you know, forge alliances, and maybe look past some of those differences? Yeah,

Unknown: 46:33

I think it's a it's a huge issue in our country right now. I think it is a distraction in my mind, from the real gap between the very, very, very wealthy and everybody else, being able to focus instead on this urban rural divide is a way of, I think it's a way of keeping people distracted from from the real issues and keeping people from seeking a truly representative democracy. It's huge. It's something that I feel I moved here with a lot of, you know, stereotypical West Coast ideology. You know, I'm not always met with open arms with with everything. But I think having enough humility to meet people where they are, to engage in dialogue to look for common ground, that is something so wonderful about traveling, it seems when you're out of your comfort zone, you're so much more willing to look for commonality than when you're stuck in your regular routine. And you're quick to notice when something is different. So I think keeping that kind of traveler mindset when you're relocating to a smaller community and looking for the common ground, oh, you love that food, too. Let's dive into it together. You love this kind of music, I'm going to attend a concert with you, that is probably the easiest place to start. And it is challenging sometimes. But I think overall, you'll find that people are willing to connect, they want community, they want the idea that you're going to listen to them that you can be empathetic, that you're not going to make a judgment about where they come from, or how they live. I'm hoping that we start there, and things get better and better.

Alissa Hessler: 48:22

I think that you're absolutely right, we have been kind of intentionally separated from one another. And now of I don't know, maybe even with COVID kind of have gone even deeper into our bubbles of comforts. And so I see there being a real opportunity for people, you know, who might be moving back to their hometowns or moving into new communities, to be those bridges to listen, to know that everybody has different lived experiences. And I think through that conversation and connection, so much can change, you're never going to force somebody to change their mind or change their belief system. But just by being able to identify with someone who thinks very different than you and have a relationship with them. That in and of itself, opens the door for changing perspectives.

Unknown: 49:19

And I think as much as we, as you know, city dwellers, moving into a rural community as much as we think we are being pigeon holed, I think the community members are just as concerned about being pigeonholed by you. So I think not going in with too many or at least checking your preconceptions and inviting people to new experiences. A great example is here locally, we have a new team of music, Booker's, for lack of a better word they book artists locally here called Geneseo jam kitchen and they are working to revive the live music scene here, which is so fun and something I support so fully. And what I love is that they have been throwing in all sorts of different genres of music every week, you never know what the next week is going to bring. And they're going in with this openness that it doesn't matter what you might think a rural community wants to hear, we're going to give you all sorts of things, and we're going to let you experience them and enjoy them and lean into them. And I think that is how I'd like to move through making relationships in rural communities is, is sometimes we are so quick to pigeonhole well, they're only going to like this and this. And so this is going to be far beyond them, or far above them, and very, you know, in very kind of condescending tone, and that furthers a divide. And instead, I find people here are so engaged, and so quick to try out something new. My mom's acupuncture practice is an incredible example of that. Here she is in a community that was very, very rural, doing traditional Chinese medicine and acupuncture, and she sees everybody, from dairy farmers to high school athletes, to college professors, you know, and everyone in between. And there's an openness there that maybe I wasn't expecting, but I love to see.

Alissa Hessler: 51:19

And it's funny, because both you and I grew up in rural places, you know, and then we left and we moved to the city. And it's almost like this thing that you just adapt to, when you move into a city of like, oh, this is the way that things are done. And maybe that's capitalism that drives that or I don't know, like this, this speed, this thing, like, you got to climb, you got to claw your way up, I don't know if it's competition based, or if it's probably a combination of all of the things. But it's so hard to detach yourself from that to a certain degree when you move into a different space. And just like taking time to take a step back and not thinking that, you know, the right way to do everything. And that, that like, this is the process Oh, when I first moved here, it was so strange to me, I started working for a film festival, and nobody wanted to email everybody wanted to talk on the phone. And I was like, this is not, this is not productive. Like it's so much easier to email, and then it's written out and, and it took me a beat to just like, take a step back and be like, Oh, this is actually a way that you connect with people. This is how you build those stronger relationships and like, just throw your need for email aside and listen to the way that they've been doing it. And there's so much value there. I wonder your role as Director of Tourism now, like what it's taught you? And what exciting initiatives do you have coming up in the future?

Unknown: 52:50

Yeah, I think I'm still learning so much. Obviously, this role was a huge career pivot for me, not just geographically, but also a whole new skill set a whole new way of working. And I think a lot of it comes down to the connection piece that you're talking about is that in this community, I talk with everyone, all ages, all walks of life. And they're all weighing into this vision of what tourism needs to be here in this county. That's been a really cool piece of my job that when I was in advertising, I was really only speaking with a very small wedge of the population. And here I feel like I get to interact with everyone. So that's been that's been really rewarding. It's not without its pain points, like the communication, I have some meetings that will never happen on Zoom. They always have to be in person, and I just have to acquiesce I just have to relent and say, Okay, let's go meet at the coffee shop. But I ended up enjoying it, I end up walking away feeling energized. And like I just had a really lovely chat and really honest connection with somebody. So that's been a lot of fun. And then looking ahead, I think we're still on this Hi, after Liv co walls after this mural festival we just pulled off by the skin of our teeth. It was It was intense. It was so many logistical considerations that I never thought I would have to deal with before. But the evidence the nine pieces of large scale public are on our walls, all of our community is so exciting and has already had such an impact that I'm already looking ahead. It's like okay, what's next public art wise? What can we do to really blow it out of the water? So that's what we're kind of steaming on right now. We're also doing a lot of coaching and kind of leadership sessions throughout the fall and into the winter for small business owners. What makes a destination business, that sort of thing. So that's really fun for me because it's easy. Will parts kind of executional and creative as we work with these small businesses who are so open and curious about things that they can do to kind of take themselves at the level,

Alissa Hessler: 55:12

I'd love for you to talk briefly on the impact of public art in rural communities. Because I've seen this in quite a few rural communities, just the power of a mural on a wall and to talk about, you know, kind of the, the logistics required to like, figure out how you do that, because you don't necessarily even have to be part of the tourism office, you could kind of grassroots that if you wanted to in your community. Yeah,

Unknown: 55:39

I think public art. And I know I keep saying this in so many words, but public art, to me is one of the key indicators of quality of life in a community when you walk into a community or drive into a community, and you see murals, and you see light installations, and we even see, you know, flowers outside of the storefronts and benches that invite people to sit and maybe those giant chest sets. It speaks to a community that is open and looking forward and really engaged with what its residents and tourists month. So I think public art has a huge impact. I've seen our residents who maybe a few of them grumbled at first, you want to put graffiti on the wall what? Now those same folks have changed their tune and are saying look at this work of art by the renowned artists key detail from Belarus, and they have become ambassadors of this public art, which is just, it melts me and it makes me so excited and so encouraged and makes me want to do more. So I think it's a huge impact. And what we did that I think is really special, we have a lot of help. My whole economic development office was really behind this 100% With our downtown coordinator really coming up with this initial concept in the first place. And then we also sourced Alex Hall from ah, public spaces consulting, and she is a tour de force. She is just amazing, a talented artist in her own right. She's from Fort Wayne, Indiana, and she's led the charge on several mural festivals. She did 11 murals and 11 counties. She's done a lot of different projects to bring public art. So we enlisted her help because with her artistic sensibilities, and her Rolodex of incredibly talented muralists. And her sense of all of the different nuts and bolts logistics that it takes, whether it's the surfacing of the wall itself, sourcing the right sort of paint, working with permits and contracts and fees, all of that she really handled exceptionally well, we really couldn't have done it without her. Now we're left with these murals, we worked to incorporate an apprentice program as well, which I think was an incredible opportunity for a lot of local artists to feel like they had a hand in learning some skills from these renowned international muralists. Maybe they were a watercolor painter on canvas. Now they're able to learn the skills of hey, this is what it takes to take that vision and put it up on 2000 Square feet, it's a very different prospect. They were able to gain that appreciation and some of those skill sets and the relationships to now they have friendships and connections with people who travel all over the world full time for art, which is really inspiring. We also started with a community brief for each of the muralists. So all the community members were invited to go in on writing a brief of what should be on the wall, what is representative of the community, we looked at history, we looked at environment, we looked at culture, all different facets of each community, and really encouraged the local residents to contribute their ideas. And then the muralists when they were selected, were able to pluck from that creative brief to inspire their work. So I think there's a lot of community involvement on every step of the process that made it a real sense of place. Once the art goes on the wall. It really ties everything together and makes people take a lot of pride in their community.

Alissa Hessler: 59:22

I love that you did the apprenticeships too with local artists. I just I love the whole way that it was executed. It was done so well. Having grown up in the community where you live now, I wondered if you've noticed shifts in the climate there because it's really hard to ignore kind of the changes in weather that have started to happen and I wonder how they've manifested in your community. It's been such a difficult thing for me to witness both, you know in the news and kind of on a global scale and then locally here too, I

Unknown: 59:55

feel very powerless a lot of the time to kind of see stop this from getting worse or slower. But I have noticed there's been a lot less snow cover in general than when we grew up. You know, I remember wearing snow pants and a whole snow suit underneath my Halloween costume almost every year when I was a kid. I'm sure you probably have a similar experience. And now you know, it's very rare that we can get snow on Thanksgiving. I know we have a local sled dog mushing club here. And they are the loudest complainers. I know because they don't have the snow to exercise the dogs like they would like. So that's been a big thing that's been probably the most obvious thing I've noticed is just the lack of snow and I love it. I hated it. As a kid. I'll be honest, I hated winter. But after spending some time I think it was in sisters and bend where everyone there has this four season zest for life no matter what, what sport are we going to do today, I tried to bring some of the energy back with me when we moved back here. And we have cross country skis and we have snow shoes. And we love just going out for winter hikes. I think coming back wanting to embrace the four seasons and seeing them change have changed so much from when we're younger is pretty disheartening. Also, we have, you know, these beautiful Finger Lakes here, which are such an incredible asset from a natural resources perspective from a tourism and residents enjoyment perspective as well. And we're seeing more and more algae blooms, we're seeing just the water temperature rise quite a bit. In the lakes, the summers have been hot, hot, hot, as I'm sure you've experienced too many more days over 90 degrees than we used to have. And then either intense rain or intense lack of rain, intense drought. So just a lot of extremes. We had a tornado nearby here recently, which is something that is I don't think I can remember it ever happening. So the weather seems to really be an obvious impact from climate change.

Alissa Hessler: 1:02:03

It's a question that I asked everyone, because it's manifesting in such different ways in different communities, especially if you grew up in that community and are able to like remember what it was like when you were younger? I wondered because this is just a question for me. Because where we live apparently is the worst place for Lyme disease like infection per capita. What's the tick situation like up there?

Unknown: 1:02:29

It's not great. It's definitely not great. We do tick checks quite regularly around here. If you're out in the woods or hiking in the village here, it's not something I worry about. But out on the farm for sure. With dogs around, you know, we always are checking our dog, too. So ticks are very prevalent here. And that's definitely something that we never worried about as kids and they're just everywhere now. So yeah, another not so great thing. I think though, you know, that we we will for better or for worse start to see people look to our area to relocate because of some of the far more drastic negative effects of climate change in other parts of the country and the world's I know, as much as I deeply love the West Coast, living through multiple seasons of wildfires was just awful, and really horrific. And, you know, having to wear a respirator mask outdoors to work outdoors was just dystopic. So I think back here, having access to the clean water and fresh air and and wide open space, and, you know, green, green living is really quite appealing. And I think we'll start to see more and more people discovering that.

Alissa Hessler: 1:03:51

I wonder that from a COVID perspective, and also from a climate refugee perspective, because I mean, I know so many people who have left the West Coast having grown up there, and specifically because of wildfire, and drought and lack of water access. Have you noticed an influx and population already in your community? And yeah, I guess you already said that you're envisioning growing even more, which I would imagine will be true.

Unknown: 1:04:21

Yeah, you know, I think we haven't seen any big uptick. I think we're still kind of a hidden gem. You know, we're Western New York. We're not trendy yet. So it hasn't been any sort of population boom, that's for sure. And it's not like the Catskills, the Hudson Valley or anything like that, that saw that huge outpouring from New York City during the pandemic. But we do have more and more of what I'll call Boomer ringers, people like me who grew up in this area and are moving back so people who know know what it has to offer. That's been really exciting for me honestly, it's been really fun to connect with people who may be new or loosely new in Childhood who have had, you know, big city lives and are choosing to come back here to raise their families to have that outdoor recreation and that fresh air and freshwater experience.

Alissa Hessler: 1:05:09

I love the term boomerang errs, I think I'm gonna be using them. That's a great term, you are just like very tenacious, and just willing to try new things on. I mean, you like you just jump into new experiences, and just figure it out. And, you know, I think a lot of people feel kind of stuck or overwhelmed by the world right now by everything. What advice would you give to people to step out of their comfort zones and explore something new, try something new, if they're stuck, either by choice or circumstance on ways to make a change in their life?

Unknown: 1:05:50

Yeah, it is. It's so challenging. I know, even just in my personal relationships, not everyone is wired to take big blind leaps. But I think if you can dip a toe in by maybe traveling somewhere you've never been before, even a short trip, even three days, kind of testing the waters. And while you're there, really trying to place yourself in the community, talking to strangers, it's not easy. Even after all those years of recruiting, I still sometimes get, you know, a little bit of the jitters. And I have to cold call somebody. But I think the more you can kind of inoculate yourself and build up a resiliency, for new experiences for putting yourself out there, the better there's so many different ways to, to live and to experience this life. And to only stay in your comfort zone is is really limiting. So I think, you know, starting small, maybe spending some time with somebody who is more extroverted, or has more experience jumping from one situation, or one job or one lifestyle to another, and paddling around with them, seeing how they kind of move through the world. And a little bit of that might rub off on you too. And you can also do it in your own way. There are so many people here, Boomerang errs included, who have moved back, taking a big leap to move back to a rural community, and who are maybe taking it at their own pace in terms of how much they put themselves out there. But they're finding their way there's a subtleness and kind of a calm presence that has just as much of a right to exist and to, you know, to try out new opportunities as the loud and extroverted and gregarious personality.

Alissa Hessler: 1:07:41

What legacy Do you want to leave behind for your kids and for future generations? Yeah,

Unknown: 1:07:49

I've been thinking a lot about that. I think as a as a new mom. And just with all of the things happening in the world, on the current events level, I take a lot of comfort in being in a smaller community now and feeling like what I do matters, feeling like the choices I make, do have some impact, positive or negative, and choosing to try to, to me as much positive impacts as possible. I think, you know, we're lucky enough to have this this farm in our family. And for me, it kind of my value kind of lives and dies on the farm, if I can keep that land, restore that land, make it healthy and productive, keep that Riverway clean, that will feel really good, because that's going to last a lot longer than any tourism initiative I can come up with. That being said, the impact I'm having in my role, you know, these murals will live there, well maintained the live for 20 years, and and then hopefully more murals will come after them. So creating a rural community that is vibrant, that is thriving, that would be a really incredible legacy to leave to. But I think a lot about that with my two young kids of what sort of world are we bringing them into and bringing them up in? And how do we make them feel like we are doing right by them? And like the bigger systems and governments and large organizations are doing right by them too. And I think we've got a lot of work to do. Yep.

Alissa Hessler: 1:09:29

It's hard. I think what you're doing in your community is really important. And I think that there's so much value to work within your community that you move into to so if, say someone's listening to this, and they're like, I haven't really heard of the Livingston County, and I'm interested in learning more and I'm looking for a new place that I want to move to or I want to visit how can people get in touch with you and learn from you.

Unknown: 1:10:01

Yeah, well, we'd love to have you. I'm still waiting for a blueberry trip one of these days to have a lot of fun. You can go to visit live wcco.com. That's our tourism website, we're pretty proud of it. We also have a seasonal guide that comes out that I'm always happy to send somebody has a nice kind of quarterly publication. We're really proud of that as well. It has been a Spotify playlist in there with sounds of the season. And it's all local photography. And we try to highlight all the local events and activities happening each season with a little bit of a deeper dive than I think, a traditional tourism publication. So we're really proud of that one. Let me know if you want a copy, you can always email info at visit live co.com. And you can give us a follow at visit live Co. And it's usually me on the other end. So if you want to slide into the DMS and shoot me a note, I'm happy to answer any questions or even hop on a call and talk to you about what it is like to live Raleigh and live in Livingston County.

Alissa Hessler: 1:10:57

Thank you so much, Melissa, for being on the podcast, you have provided so much wisdom and insight. And I love the work that you're doing in your community now. And it's amazing that you've been able to come back and settle where you grew up, and are helping strengthen your local economy with the work that you do. So thank you, and thank you for your wonderful package that you sent me. She Melissa sent me a package with all sorts of really cool live co stuff and my mother in law's name is actually leave but spelled like live. And I'm like, Oh, she's gonna love this.

Unknown: 1:11:32

One. I'm gonna show it to her. It's been branded.

Alissa Hessler: 1:11:35

Exactly. But thank you so much. It's so wonderful to see you thrive and to see you with your little kids and building a life there. And I can tell that you have just landed where you're supposed to be. So thank you so much for joining us.

Unknown: 1:11:49

Thank you, Alisa. It's just I love the work you're doing to connect all of us rural, curious or our, you know, rural dwellers and really strengthening that broader community. So I hope to connect with you again in real life sometime soon.

Alissa Hessler: 1:12:04

Thank you, Melissa for joining us on the show. Some of my key takeaways from this episode. First, a deep human need is to feel like we matter. Like the work that we do has purpose. Hustle culture leads us to often internalize the belief that we are not enough. And we'll always have to strive to be enough. Recognizing and reflecting on where that need is coming from can allow you to put a name to that feeling and question it. Second, let's de stigmatize boomerang errs, moving back to your hometown after a time away, should and can be cause for celebration. Instead of being seen as some sort of personal failure. There is value in leaving a place exploring new experiences for a period of time and choosing to return home. Small communities need to start talking about the pandemic influx and rising costs. Finding a balance between tourism gentrification, rising cost of living and new opportunities for locals needs to be on the forefront, as many rural places navigate new residents and rising costs. And lastly, art is powerful. The mural project in Livingston County has made a real economic and community impact in a short period of time, public art is a worthwhile investment. It fosters connection, and conversation. Hi, friends, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the urban Exodus podcast. This is a listener supported program that is only made possible through your continued support. And if you haven't already, we would really love it if you'd leave us a five star review on Apple podcasts, or Spotify, or whatever service you listen on. And please recommend urban access to your friends. An enormous thank you to my incredible producer Simone Leon, and my amazing editor Johnny Sol, and my music man, Benjamin Thoreau, and thanks to all of you for listening. I'm Alissa Hessler and this is the urban Exodus