Finding Paradise: A journalist and her family's Covid motivated move from Toronto to rural Costa Rica provides a shift in perspective and better quality of life

This episode is sponsored by New Hampshire’s Monadnock Region. Home to five state parks, thousands of acres of pristine lakes, a flourishing arts scene, and Mount Monadnock, the most climbed mountain the U.S. Natural beauty and bustling downtowns await, just a two-hour drive from Boston. Every Urban Exodus begins with an urban escape, and yours is Within Thriving Distance. Visit MonadnockNH.com today.

I’m excited to invite you to my conversation with Mallika Viegas. Mallika was born in Goa, India, and moved to Canada with her family at age 11. Her husband was also born in Goa and immigrated to Canada. Serendipitously, the couple met in Toronto after college and connected over their shared friends and upbringing. 

In Toronto, Mallika built a successful career in storytelling - working as a journalist, documentarian, content producer and podcast host. She has worked for Vice, Toronto Star, CBC, Fashion and The Cut. When Mallika’s son Freddie was born in the early days of the pandemic, she realized her desire to make a seismic life shift so that she could work less and spend more quality time with her family.

Battling the isolation of being a new mom during a pandemic, Mallika yearned to be closer to her parents, who had recently retired in Costa Rica. Throwing caution to the wind, the young family braved a pandemic trip to see her family. Fate changed their plans of a return trip, because their flights back to Canada kept getting canceled. It only took a few weeks before they decided to relocate permanently. 

Since moving to Costa Rica, Mallika’s lifestyle and priorities have completely shifted. The lower cost of living has allowed her to be more selective of the freelance work she takes on - giving her much more freedom in her days. Living in a close-knit beach community, with an appreciation of family and children, has also allowed her to let go from elements of materialism and individualism, raising her son in a more holistic and natural environment.

This is a story about the beauty of embracing a new culture, unexpected new chapters, and finding home wherever family is.

Transcript

Alissa Hessler: 0:00

This episode is sponsored by New Hampshire's Monadnock region, home of five state parks 1000s of acres of pristine lakes, a flourishing art scene and Mount Monadnock. The most climbed mountain in the United States, natural beauty and bustling downtown's await. Located just a two hour drive from Boston. Every urban Exodus begins with an urban escape. And yours is within thriving distance. Visit monad NOC n h.com Today, that's mo N, ad, and OC K and h.com.

Mallika Vieges: 0:40

You know, in this day and age, I feel like our education has very little to do with what we ended up doing. You know, you just have to be adaptable. And I think that is the biggest thing. You have to be open to learning new things. As long as you're open to that and not scared that you can't learn anymore. You'll be okay.

Alissa Hessler: 1:05

Have you ever dreamed of making a radical shift? What does it take to build a more intentional life? What is gained from reconnecting with yourself with community and with the natural world? I'm Alissa Hessler. I've spent the last decade meeting with people all over the world who have made remarkable transitions in their lives. How do they do it? What did they sacrifice? What have they learned? Stepping away from convention isn't easy. But we all have the power to reclaim the things that we've lost, to slow down to change course, to create the life we want for ourselves and for future generations. The urban Exodus podcast shares, practical advice, and inspirational words to embolden and guide you on your own journey. These are the stories of those brave enough to venture down the road less traveled. This is the urban Exodus. Urban Exodus is community supported programming, please consider sponsoring an episode or making a contribution so we can keep these conversations going. The easiest way to contribute is to click the support button on the top of urban exodus.com. You can also become a member of the urban Exodus community to peruse our archives of hundreds of photo stories and interviews of people who left city life or subscribe to Apple podcast premium to have access to bonus episodes, or rapid fire interviews with guests in our new mini podcast. Ditch the city where I answer listeners questions and offer practical advice on a whole myriad of topics. If you have a question for an upcoming episode that you'd like us to consider, please send us a DM on Instagram, or through our contact us page. Thank you for helping me continue to do this work. I couldn't do it without all of you. And if you haven't already, we would really love it if you'd leave us a five star review on Apple podcasts or Spotify, or whatever service you listen on. And please recommend urban exodus to your friends. I'm excited to invite you to my conversation with Malika Vegas, Malika was born in Goa India, and moved to Canada with her family at age 11. Her husband was also born in Goa and emigrated to Canada. serendipitously The couple met in Toronto after college and connected over their shared friends and upbringing in Toronto, Monica built a successful career in storytelling. Working as a journalist, documentarian, content producer, and podcast host. She has worked for Vice, the Toronto Star CBC fashion in the QAT. When Malika son Freddie was born in the early days of the pandemic, she realized her desire to make a seismic life shift so that she could work less and spend more quality time with her family, battling the isolation of being a new mom during the pandemic. Mollica yearn to be closer to her parents, who had recently retired to Costa Rica. throwing caution to the wind. The young family braved a pandemic trip to see her family feet stepped in and changed their plans for return trip. Because their flights back to Canada kept getting canceled. It only took a few weeks before they decided to relocate permanently. Since moving to Costa Rica Moloch has lifestyle and priorities have completely shifted. The lower cost of living has allowed her to be more selective of the freelance work that she takes on giving her much more freedom in her days. Living in a close knit beach community, with an appreciation of Family and Children has also allowed allowed her to let go from elements of materialism and individualism. She's able to raise her son in a more holistic and natural environment. This is a story about the beauty of embracing a new culture, unexpected new chapters, and finding home wherever family is. I'm very excited to have on the podcast, Monica Vegas, you recently left a city in Canada and moved to a small community in Costa Rica. And you did this during the pandemic with a newborn baby. And you have completely kind of pivoted your career and your lifestyle and made this major life shift. And it seems like things are really working out for you and that you made the right choice. So I'm really excited to talk to you about your journey today. Thank you so much for joining us.

Unknown: 6:01

Thank you. I'm so excited to chat with you as well.

Alissa Hessler: 6:05

Well, first off, I wondered if you could just share like a little bit of your personal backstory where you grew up, and kind of the paths that you've taken, that have led you to where you are now.

Unknown: 6:16

I mean, I grew up in a coastal state in India called Goa. And I moved to Canada in 1999 to Ottawa, which my dad loved to tell people was the coldest, second coldest capital in the world. So big shift for us. When I was in grade five, my parents ended up moving to Costa Rica around 10 years ago, and from my very first visit, I was completely captivated. So like my husband and I were both fairly well traveled. But it's one of the first places we've been to that we didn't immediately feel like tourists, which is always a nice, a nice feeling. And at the time, we lived in Toronto, and we lived in Toronto for about six years with our firstborn or dog. And we absolutely loved city life. And we are also like outdoor freaks, but we really liked the balance of both. So we had like a fairly active city life, you know, biking to work, the ease of popping down for anything, the freedom of condo life without homeownership, which, which is awesome. But year after year, our city life really started to dull I guess I guess we grew older, we started outgrowing our 600 square foot space. And really we were finding ourselves out priced off the city. Yeah, so long story short, my husband, I always had it in our plans to move to Costa Rica. And by 2021, that was the year we always thought we would move. But then I got pregnant and 20 a fall of 2019. And by May 2020, we were really, really certain with our decision to get out.

Alissa Hessler: 8:04

What was it like being pregnant through COVID and bringing your son into the world, though, kind of during lockdown?

Unknown: 8:14

Yeah, it was in the moment, I would say like it was incredible in the sense that we got to do everything, you know, our way. There were definitely some like, there were no certainties in the world at the time. But there was this certainty that we wouldn't have help, we wouldn't have support. And you kind of go into this like, Okay, well, there's no option so you can't really get upset about it. In hindsight, it was hard. But at the time, you know, we really embraced it. I'm really proud of us. I was lucky I had an incredible birth, we found out actually a few weeks before I gave birth that partners would be allowed in the room, which was unimaginable, like I couldn't I don't know what I would have done but I had a team of midwives that I still get teary eyed thinking about them because I leaned on them a lot. They were the ones I messaged about, you know weird rashes or grunting snores or anything that you would normally have your mom or a mom friend advise you on so if I didn't have that my I honestly don't know what I would do. But and then my husband, he was able to show up in a way that wouldn't have been possible if we weren't in lockdown. So he took nearly every work call with a sleeping baby strapped to him. And and that was possible, you know, and so the first the first three months you're in that newborn bliss anyway, and it was it was great. It was only around I think that three months stage when I like it really hit me how alone we were and how lonely I felt. I used to just like wander the city all alone with the baby and the dog and you know, for hours. And it's one of those things where even to this day I think about like how crazy it is that I never had a single one of my friends or relatives hold my newborn. It's, it's it's a bizarre feeling because that's I mean, what's one of the things you look forward to when you have a baby is sharing them. It's like look I made. And even in our building, I remember when I go for walks, and our neighbors would be like, wait, you are pregnant, because no one saw me pregnant. And then no one saw me with a baby. So suddenly, like, I suddenly had a toddler. And yeah, so that was it was it was a bizarre and bizarre time. And like, I remember joking with joking with one of my closest friends, she lives in India. And I remember joking with her the time oh, by the time Freddie meets you, he'll be able to introduce himself to you. And now it's a reality of its that is just so bizarre, like at the time, it was 2020. We were like, Oh, this will be over once, and we all had that kind of thinking. But yeah, there was a lot of like, there was so much. I mean, there was this isolation, I think also, because everyone was going through a lot. And it just felt like I was going through this major life of man, but at the same time, so is everyone else. So I couldn't, you know, you couldn't reach out to people because people were going, like, we only had one friend bring us food. And at the time, I didn't even think about it. But now looking back, I'm like, That's wild, like, you know, but people were so nervous about contact. And, you know, do you remember when people were like washing their groceries?

Alissa Hessler: 11:29

I think I did that for two weeks. I was like, No, that's I

Unknown: 11:33

mean, so it was like, it was just such a strange time. And like, again, when you're in it, I think you just in survival mode and you like I remember being like so happy and so over the moon and you know, and not thinking about it. And it was only like, a year later. And I'm like processing my postpartum like, wow, I was like stressed. But you don't even you don't even think about it at the time.

Alissa Hessler: 11:56

You decided to move. I mean, you were locked down, your parents couldn't even come and meet your son, because they were in Costa Rica. I'd love for you to talk about, you know what your move was like and what the decision was to really leave Toronto uproot your lives and move to Costa Rica. And why Costa Rica? How does it speak to you in that way? Why did you choose that place?

Unknown: 12:20

It is so opposite from Toronto, so many ways, which I think is what really, really drew us. I mean, it honestly, it's like I said, it started long before I got pregnant. But even when I got pregnant, I remember going to my HR three months in and telling them that I'm pregnant. And the first thing they said to me was, Are you signed up for daycare. And in Canada, we get a year to 18 months map leave. So they're asking me if I signed up basically two years in advance for daycare, you know, and I said, No, and she's like, Okay, well, you better get on it really quickly. Otherwise, there's not going to be a spot. It was kind of like this, it really solidified our decision. Because we started thinking, you know, like for us, why did we have a kid both of us were in very high pressure jobs, we were working crazy hours, we would get to see our child like an hour before bedtime every day. And that was it. And the jobs we were in wouldn't support the lifestyle that we needed for a child. So we would have to get more jobs with more responsibilities. And it just nothing seemed to add up. And then when we couldn't visit my parents when I had the baby, that was really difficult because well, I'm an only child and close with my parents. And, you know, week after week, it kept being like, Okay, so maybe we can book a flight and then it would get canceled, or you know, something else would come into play. And it was only when Freddy was just shy of seven months that we managed to go visit in Costa Rica. So we were like, Okay, let's just go we'll go for a month. Doug's already working from home. So we can we can figure it out. We'll figure it out working from there for a month. And we decided to visit them and we got here. And of course, everything changed again. And our flights got canceled and kept getting canceled. And we ended up getting stuck, quote unquote, because there's no way I would rather have been stuck for six months instead of the original one month plan, which in hindsight, and at the moment, frankly, it was so good for you know, especially my mental health and just having people around was a huge, huge, huge savior. Yeah. And then during that time, while with Doug's work. They were like, Okay, I guess you're stuck, and I guess it's working. So he kept he kept working and they didn't see any problem with it. Again, this is something that never would have been even entertained pre pandemic. So the fact that it was working and it didn't seem to cause any problems was great. ate. And so it kind of also allowed us to think, okay, maybe this is, this could work in our current situation. Sidenote, my husband who's like, he's one of these, like people that has like an incredible brain. So the entire time I was pregnant, and with our newborn, he would spend every hour that he wasn't doing his job studying. Because he was like, Okay, this is how we're going to make you know how I'm going to transition to working in Costa Rica. So that was our plan on long and then when COVID happened, the possibility of him working the same job, you know, that happened to work out just fine. So we were like, okay, then why Why Wait, what are we waiting for? I think when we were younger, we wouldn't have thought twice. But now that we're, you know, older, we want to have some kind of security, how can you move without a job? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that. But yeah, it just seemed to work. And so what we did, we went back to Toronto for three and a half months, which is so crazy. And we closed up our apartment, we sold all our furniture sold everything we own, which is wild. Yeah, literally packed our bags. And in the most Canadian way. We took six hockey bags and first stuff. And yeah, we moved to Costa Rica.

Alissa Hessler: 16:28

What was it? Like just getting settled there? Like, can you describe your home now and the community where you live? And yeah, what it feels like to live there. Now.

Unknown: 16:37

Yeah, we moved in with my parents for the first few months, which was great, because we had the extra hands and things like that. But we were so used to being on our own and doing things our way that until we moved into our own place, it still felt like we were just visiting. So but once we had the feeling of like, the confidence that we made the right decision, it was almost instant, like, we start and end our day at the beach, within a week of us being here, people in town would say hi and make small talk. And something that's something that took us months to build in Toronto, our our landlord, she's incredibly Klein and helpful. And every person we meet just reassures us that this is the right decision. I mean, in Toronto, I can't tell you the amount of times I would come home and be so flustered by some negative reaction that someone took out their bad day on me or someone coughed on me in the subway, things like that. And, I mean, when you're in the city, or like that just city life and you you kind of live off this high of the stress and the anxiety and it's only when you're away from it that you're like, Oh, this is kind of nice to not worry all the time. And I think like the the specific moments, like even even my dog, I think that was really the way that people love dogs here. It's just, it's just, you know, in Toronto, you always get some one or the other, giving you an opinion about what your dog should or shouldn't be doing. And here. I mean, the first time we went to a restaurant here, they kept the server came over and gave us you know, water for the table and then brought a water for the dog. And then, you know, booked my toddler on the nose. And I was like just this little interaction just, you know, made my heart feel so full, because it's just something that's really missing. And I don't know, if it's like North American, you know, everyone's like so politically correct. You don't want to cross any boundaries. Also with COVID Also, I don't know a million other reasons. But having that you know, the small town feel of like you belong here. Even though you're a complete stranger, it was just so it was so reassuring.

Alissa Hessler: 18:55

Now that you've been there, and you've had some time to be there, like, do you feel really connected to the community? Like, what is the makeup of the community? Are there a lot of immigrants of people that have moved in there from other countries? How many people live there? Tell us about that.

Unknown: 19:09

It's small. So we are in a small town, and it's just out of another small beach town. So we tell people we're in a beach town called Samara. And that one is it's small to begin with. But we're actually like South at that yet an even smaller town. And it's a real mix. A big reason we picked this area of the country is that it isn't a big expat community because we didn't want to just move and then recreate our lives in Canada. We wanted to be you know, part of the community and feel like we belong here. And we're we're pretty used to being a immigrants. I mean, we're already immigrants in Canada. So it wasn't a big shift in that way. The biggest shift of course, is that I don't know you don't feel that same kind of prejudiced that we felt in Canada as immigrants because Costa Rica, the makeup of Costa Rica is so diverse. So one of the nicest things we found is that when you meet someone, you have no idea if they're Costa Rican or not, and their skin color won't tell you that, because it's so diverse. And so that was really nice for us, especially when in toronto, toronto is very, very, very diverse. But it's also very pocketed. And you know, that can, well, frankly, lead to a lot of racism and prejudice and preconceived notions about who you are and where you're from, and that kind of thing. And yeah, and it's nice that that doesn't quite exist here. So yeah, our community, there are a lot of European immigrants, which is cool. I think it lends itself to a very different kind of community. So a lot of our like local restaurants and things like that are Italian and French. And like, we have a big laundry where we get croissants every week, and it's like, and it's different from like French bakeries or Italian places in North America, because these are actually people who moved from like small town, Italy, and opened a restaurant here. So it's really good. And I this is like authentic croissants, like there's a lot of butter. And yeah, and so it's made up for an interesting makeup of the place, for sure. Even our schools, it's really family friendly, this area of Costa Rica. And so there's quite a few schools that have opened up, there's one that has, it's a French school, and so they teach French, Spanish and English and that's how they conduct all their all their classes. And so that's also really interesting is like you have like all these kids walking around speaking all these different languages, and it's very sweet. I'm like, This is so bizarre that I probably won't understand what Fred is saying to his friends, but it's really nice.

Alissa Hessler: 22:01

Calling all small business owners, are you looking to expand your customer base beyond the reach of your local community? Speak to our loyal audience of over 38,000 listeners by sponsoring an episode of the urban Exodus podcast. For more information, visit urban exodus.com/podcast. What is the language barrier been like for you? Are you starting to learn Spanish? Did you know some Spanish before you went out there?

Unknown: 22:31

I will say no. I did not know a Spanish duck. And I would take eight lessons and we were very diligent about it pre baby. But as you know things get busy. You have a baby, your brain basically turns to spaghetti.

Alissa Hessler: 22:48

Every oatmeal brain

Unknown: 22:50

Yes, exactly. Yeah. And so my oatmeal brain forgot all my Spanish. But if you want to learn Spanish, Costa Rica is definitely one of the most forgiving countries to do that in people love having you learn and they, you know will go slowly. And yeah, so if we are Spanish is actually improving quite well, it helps that we live in a town there. They don't speak too much English. Because I think that has also forced us to learn. And you know, communicate, it is definitely like something that can be difficult. I remember my dad telling me years ago, you know, he misses having small talk at the hardware store. And it was like I used to joke with him. I'm like, That's ridiculous. You live in Costa Rica. Like what is what is silly thing to focus on. But it does make sense. It's like you you miss that you connection and rapport, you get people from just, you know, throwing out conversation like that. So I think those those things are difficult. And that definitely something to keep in mind, if you're, you know, planning on moving countries is that there is that that barrier. But at the same time, it's not like so, one thing we've done is we've made sure that we keep a really good routine, because I know that helps. Well, not only kids, but it helps me as well. And it helps with anxiety. And well when anything's new. It's always nice to have something that you can count on and not think about. So, you know, we go to the farmers market every Saturday morning. And we see the same people there every Saturday. And now it's gotten to a point where we know so many of the vendors that you know, they will ask us where we've been if we miss a week or you know they make small talk with Freddy or given give them little treats or toys or things like that. But it's just one thing that has made us really feel at home and part of the community.

Alissa Hessler: 24:48

Yeah, absolutely. Whenever there's a language barrier, I think the hardest part until you're fluent is that it's hard to convey your personality, right like it's hard like I under or stand the hardware store because like, You strike me as a very like fun and funny human being and

Unknown: 25:07

not like not funny in Spanish. Like I have no humor.

Alissa Hessler: 25:13

I think that's whenever i i speak like, a bit of Spanish but not enough to have that, like that real conversation. And so yeah, I was wondering what that experience was like. Yeah, and

Unknown: 25:25

I really like it for it. Sometimes I'll use like the translators to like, translate, like my sarcastic comment. And then you can clearly see by the expression like it could not translate well, I'm like, Oh, okay.

Alissa Hessler: 25:41

I should learn the nuances.

Unknown: 25:43

Yeah, yeah. But that's also been fun, because I'm like a big people watcher. So I like listening to you know, how people say slang and things like that. And just like absorbing, absorbing it that way. My husband does find it a little harder, because like I said, He's like one of those like, brainy people. So he likes to have everything like right before he tries, whereas like, for me, I'm just faltering the entire time.

Alissa Hessler: 26:10

I love the story of you and your husband meeting. And I wonder if you could share that. And also maybe talk a little bit about your childhood in Goa, because you've now lived in three different countries. And I think that people, like get scared to leave like where they're from, or to uproot themselves and go into a place that's completely foreign to them and start a new so yeah, tell us those two stories, I guess.

Unknown: 26:33

Yeah. So my husband I met after university. And we actually come from the exact same place in Goa. And we met because his cousin, and I went to kindergarten together, and in Goa, and his cousin was actually my first crush in kindergarten. And so yeah, the funny part is like, our family's like, I knew his cousin. And you know, his aunt and uncle and I used to go over to their house. And somehow the two of us never met us kids. But I kept in touch with his cousin over the years and things like that, and was only when I finished university, I was new to the Toronto area. And I linked up with his cousin again, who had also moved to Toronto and he, and started meeting up with them. And he introduced us. And then it was really bizarre, because when we started dating, we then realized, like, he's a couple years older than me, but we started realizing that we had the same childhood friends back in India, and both of us used to go visit often. And when we first went back together, our friends were just like, really like, you go, you guys go to Canada, and then you to end up together, you couldn't find a single other person and both country. But I Yeah, it was, it was really nice. And I mean, it was easy. And yeah, it worked out. Well.

Alissa Hessler: 27:58

Yeah, I love that story. So we talked a little bit about you becoming mother in the early days of the pandemic, but I was wondering, like, what it's like being a mother going into a new country, and trying to find that community too. Because, you know, it's a big shift when you become a mother and it can be quite isolating. And it is a really important time to feel like you have community and friendships and what motherhood look like in Canada, and what it looks like in Costa Rica for you now.

Unknown: 28:31

I mean, it's a weird time, it's just been such a weird time, because I can't even say like, this is what fatherhood in Canada is like, because my experience of it was not typical. Like there weren't, you know, and, and it's sad, because in Toronto, we have some amazing services for parents that I just could never access, you have, you know, drop in centers where you can take your kids every day for free for, you know, storytime and things like that. And so you can meet other new moms and libraries and all of that, but I was not able to access any of them. So it was definitely isolating. But at the same time, I don't know parenthood is like, it's like this club. And it's kind of it's kind of incredible. I've never felt that kind of camaraderie with strangers, like I have with parents. You know, I had parents of women from high school congratulate me and say like, if you need anything, I'm here and I was like, oh, like I haven't heard from you and you know, 15 years so that's a nice and I guess the best advice would just probably be find a playground. It's like a guaranteed meet up anywhere in any country. In Costa Rica. It was very different because people are very baby crazy. Much more so than in North America. Like people will just come up and take your baby, which which I never was, like, wary about or anything like that, but because it just made sense here, I don't think I would be okay with someone doing Toronto. But here, you know, it just very, very normal. Like if you're at the grocery store, you're paying and your baby's spicy, the cashier will take your baby while you sort out your payment. Like it's just very, very, very natural and a big thing. Yeah, big thing here is like, men and women are baby crazy, which I think is really sweet. It's like a huge, huge difference from North America. You just You just feel like your baby is allowed to be part of society. Which sounds so ridiculous, but it's like, you really feel the difference? And in some places, like why is your baby on the flight with you? Like you should have left that child? Yeah. But I mean, in terms of meeting people, it's it's hard. It feels like it's like you're dating, but it's harder, because you don't feel or maybe look like yourself. you're sleep deprived. And now you have to make friends. You know, the minute you do it, it's it's pretty life changing. Because, yeah, I when we got here, I was so eager to make friends that I put out messages on local Facebook groups, and I got no response. And it was so discouraging. And I was kind of embarrassed. But I also had to be patient, because, you know, I'm not going to make friends overnight. I never have, but at least not ones with substance. So I was meeting acquaintances, but I was like, Oh, I'm so tired of having small talk. But I can't be so impatient about it. And I also had to realize that other parents are in a similar boat, people, you know, other parents are looking to make parent friends too, because it's a hard transition into parenthood. It's it's hard to explain to your friends that don't have kids. And when you meet another family where your kids can get along, and you can have an adult conversation for more than five minutes. It's pretty magical.

Alissa Hessler: 32:06

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's brave to go into a completely new environment and try to make those inroads, but in some ways, like babies are your like, tiny ambassador, like they offer a bridge for people to strike up.

Unknown: 32:21

So you just have to say like, oh, oh, how old is she? You're in?

Alissa Hessler: 32:28

It's gonna it's kind of a beautiful thing. I wondered what some of the cultural differences and surprising similarities you have noticed between India and Canada and Costa Rica.

Unknown: 32:40

One thing that we this is pre baby, the thing we noticed, that we really liked about Costa Rica, that reminded us of India was the availability of people just to hang out. And in North America, I and I'm speaking for Toronto, mostly because it's a big city, it was everything was very, very planned out, you know, like, our schedules were really full. Like I relied on my calendar a lot. But it was very much like, Okay, I'm seeing my friend Chelsea, three weeks from Thursday, and then I'm, and these are like, close friends. It's not even just, you know, like people that I want to see once a year. It's like people that I would see often, but it was still very, very planned out. And I'm not sure if it's because Toronto is just so diverse. And no one knows each other's cultural norms. And no one wants to step on any toes, but you never have people just dropped by or you know, I was in the neighborhood and I'm ringing your doorbell. Like, that is considered so rude to us in India, and here, it's just so normal. Like we even yesterday, we were driving back from town, and we saw some friends at the beach. And you know, they were barbecuing. And in Canada, we would have like, stopped and said hi, but we never would have been like, Can we eat your food? Whereas here, they're like, oh, yeah, we have plenty like and we ended up just spending our evening at the beach with them. You know, and I was like, luckily we had like a towel in the in the trunk. But it's so unplanned. And that's how and it's not just young people, it's you know, all ages even. We have a friend here who's a surgeon, and she grew up in Costa Rica. And she's like, oh, yeah, it's so normal for you know, my friends to ring up and be like, Hey, you want to go get tacos and I just finished a shift at you know, 10pm and I'm going to go get tacos and that's so nice. It's just that feeling that you belong and you know, I don't know there's this. There's this feeling with me, especially when things are super planned out. I find that when it comes close to the date, I don't feel like doing it. I

Alissa Hessler: 34:51

dread Yeah, yeah, there's a dread when I was living in the city. It felt like your relationships are always last on the totem. Pull of like all of the things that you had to get accomplished and everybody like, where's this badge of busyness? And it seems like your life has really shifted and maybe like slowed down there. And what does that shift been like for you from like a mental physical, like spiritual perspective,

Unknown: 35:18

it's huge. It is so huge. I've always been, you know, a very career oriented individual. Like, since I was a kid, I was like, No, this is, you know, this is what I'm going to do. This is my five year plan. This is my X, Y, Zed. And it's the first time in my life I don't even have like a six month plan, let alone a five year plan. I honestly don't have like a two month plan, but, and the first time in my life, I'm completely okay with it. It hasn't bothered me at all. I mean, I remember when we were moving. And my dad has always been like, a huge supporter of my career and things like that. So he was pretty nervous about me deciding to freelance and going down this route. And he was like, Well, what, what about your career? You know, you're not going to be able to do that in Costa Rica. And I was like, Yeah, but that's not why I'm moving to Costa Rica. I'm not moving to advance my career. Because I realized, like, also that like, romanticizing this career path thing that, you know, might have worked in the 80s. It doesn't work anymore. You know, I remember getting into journalism being like, oh, I want to be a foreign correspondent, and I, you know, I started learning Arabic. And I was like, Oh, I'm so focused on this goal that and then once I actually started working in the field, I was like, This is impossible. Like it's there's so much nepotism, there's so much. It's such a rat race, especially in Canada. It's it's a small industry. And it just seemed like, yeah, I was probably going to be a PA or a producer for the rest of my life. And I would have to be okay with that. Because that's, that's just it. And so it really shifted what I thought of as a career. And then I even when I went into content creation and advertising, I remember when I got hired, my boss was like, really eager that I meet the CEO. And he was like, Oh, I think you know, you guys will hit it off. And maybe you can be her one day. And I, I remember meeting her and she was like, Oh, we love it here. And this is an advertising and she was like, yes. You know, we work hard. We play hard. We're here. You know, every weekend. We're here every night, and we just love it. And in my head. I'm like, This sounds terrible. They're like, Oh, great flow. Imagine like, building yourself up going up this corporate ladder and working more like, that makes zero sense.

Alissa Hessler: 37:53

Yeah, you got like a preview of what your life kind of could be. If you have Yeah, climbing the rungs of the ladder, right?

Unknown: 38:01

Yeah. Yeah. It didn't make it didn't make any sense. I'd love

Alissa Hessler: 38:05

for you to talk about, you know, kind of your early career what you did. You talked about journalism, and what you do now what the pivot was what your work looks like, now?

Unknown: 38:14

Yeah, so I got into journalism working at like, traditional media outlets. So like the Toronto Star, and then I worked at VICE News for a couple of years. And I was doing traditional news, right when Trump got elected. And yeah, and that was like a real like, I remember for a solid month or two months, I was literally for advice, watching his speeches and splicing videos, and I went,

Alissa Hessler: 38:44

Oh, no, I'm so sorry. It was

Unknown: 38:48

so draining. And I was like, Oh my God. And this was like, his first term. It wasn't even a second term. This was the first term and it was awful. And I was like, oh my god and and the thing was, that was all the news was, there was nothing else it was day after day. What what other craziness are we going to talk about today? And it was it was draining and it didn't feel I felt endless and it felt like this was not what I got into this industry for and the nice part of advice is that you get to work on other things as well and so that was good I had some freedom there and I really enjoy content creation you know, working on docks and stuff like that. So I decided to go more into documentary style and do some sponsored documentaries and stuff like that, which was great. I really I did really enjoy that. But yeah, it just felt like there wasn't much of a work balance I you know, like really, really rewarding day's still ended at 10pm because that's how shoot days go and and then you know, it ends and then the next day you're like, Okay, what's my next project? You don't even have a second to appreciate what you did or what you put out there, or it got to a point, like I remember when in my early journalism days, I used to send, like everything I did to my parents, you know, and they would like, post it on Facebook and all of that. But then you're just a machine and I don't even I could never I couldn't even tell you how much stuff I've put out because it was just endless, like multiple, multiple things a day it, you know, the news cycle is so quick to everything I was putting out, even ads, it was just like, What am I doing this for? Who is it benefiting? I'm not really proud of my work anymore.

Alissa Hessler: 40:31

That's how journalism has changed, right? It's become like a content monster. And you can never feed the monster enough content.

Unknown: 40:39

Exactly. And what's even the point, you know, if you have one story that goes viral, it's literally forgotten in two days. And it's so painful.

Alissa Hessler: 40:50

I also studied journalism in school, and I ended up going kind of into like, PR, like branding, design worlds. And then like running product launches. But now having like the autonomy to create something for myself, not only is it terrifying to try to, you know, just like create something for yourself, but I wondered what that looks like for you. What are you working on right now? And how have you removed yourself from that toxic industry? And then put your foot back in the way that is for you?

Unknown: 41:23

Yeah, I mean, I think I was really lucky with my mat leave, because I was able to take off so much time and kind of figure that out. With also having the freedom if you know, if it doesn't really work, I can go back. So I kind of had that on backburner. And I just started, I started writing for a couple of publications, while I had the baby. And I wrote specifically about motherhood, and they were more like, personal kind of essays and things like that. And they, they did really well. And I, it's one of those things that I'm sure you experienced as well. But when you're in journalism, you feel like you're like, you're careful. You feel you forget that you have any kind of skill, because your skill set is also used. So specifically for like, it ends up being so random, right? Like, you're like, Oh yeah, I've literally just put captions on pictures for the last like week, like I there's no way I even remember how to write, you know, writing again, and realizing like, oh, I can actually do this was it was a good confidence booster. And so I started doing that a little bit more. And that kind of picked up a bit organically. Then I started doing interviews as well for publications, which I really enjoyed. And now a majority of my time is spent doing brand work specifically. So I work with a Canadian lingerie brand that's focused, it's an ethical lingerie brand. But their big focus is that they have this online community called the self love club. And so they interview and have, you know, muses every month and they interview incredible people all over the world, and you get to bright intentions, and it's it's all very lovey dovey and wonderful. And so I get to do that for them a little bit as well. And yeah, and then at the same time, I'm also just picking up random clients here and there. Like you said, you never know where these things go. So I recently did a lookbook for a European brand. And they are they put they wanted their lookbook to be like a magazine. So that was really cool. Because I like I have very little to do with the world of fashion. So that was fun for me. And they wanted, you know, interviews with the founders and to have it all be like magazine style. And again, it's just like these nice little boosts from people being like, Oh, my God, this is so good. I'm like, Oh, is it? Cool. But yeah, it's been working out? Well, it's definitely an interesting transition. Because I, I have a toddler. And he isn't in daycare, he is at home. So I can only really work once he goes to bed, which means that I only start my workday at around 730. But again, if you think about your work day at the office, like you probably have like three hours of productivity versus like eight hours of drama. And I don't have that. So yeah, it's it's been it's been great.

Alissa Hessler: 44:27

I just wanted to give an enormous thank you to all of you who have made contributions to offset the production costs of this podcast. It means so much to me that you find enough meaning and value to pledge your support to keep this going. If you haven't had a chance to contribute, we've made it really easy for you. Just click the support button on the top of urban Exodus website. You can also get access to bonus episodes, rapid fire interviews, and our new mini podcast. Ditch the city by signing up for our apple podcast premium or you You can become a member of the urban Exodus online community where you can access hundreds of photos, stories, interviews, tutorials, videos, and more. Find out more by visiting the membership page on urban exodus.com. I feel like becoming a mom too. For me, I like all of a sudden, I was so much more productive. Like, I can get like four hours worth of work done in like an hour. If I have a completely quiet space. I'm like, just leave me in here for an hour and I will get it all done. And before you know, I would like daydream or meander or whatever. And so that helps with the hyperfocus. How have you gone about like getting clients and reaching out to people? What was that like for you? Because I think sometimes that's the hurdle that stands in the way for people, they feel like, Oh, can I do this work? Like, can I approach brands or companies to say that I can do this for them?

Unknown: 45:55

Yeah, so when I started, I was so nervous I, I reached out to friends and people in my network who had companies and I said, like, Hey, do you can I write the content for your website for free? You know, which was, in a way? Like, it's interesting, because I think, I don't know what it was if it was new motherhood, or what were you, like, I was just so shaken and my confidence in my abilities. That, you know, I was like, I don't like I had like over 10 years experience, but I was like, I don't specifically have experience in this one thing. So. And I think that was fine. I it helped me as well to feel like I could do what I was saying I could do without the added pressure of someone paying me. So I reached out to a few brands. And I was really lucky. Because well, I don't know if it's lucky, or just people are just waiting for someone. But they were all like, yes, of course. Yeah. And so that helped the portfolio. So then I had a portfolio of you know, content writing, which I never had before I had all these news stories. And like, no one really wants me. Yeah, so I had this content suddenly that I could showcase. And, yeah, and then it It happened just through word of mouth. I mean, I would look online here and there. But a lot of it was through Instagram, and I tried using Upwork. But I did not it didn't work for me, because you have to really, like invest a lot in the website. And I, I did not have the time to do that. So I just, I've just kept it kind of open, and it has worked out. And I think the biggest thing is that I keep reaching out to people saying like, hey, like, if you hear if anything, let me know, or if you ever have any more opportunities coming up. And it's worked out really nicely, because I think at the end of the day, people want to help each other as much as as much as we don't think that. And so if a friend or someone reaches out to you, and they're like, Hey, do you have any work for me? You're like, no, but maybe my, you know, so and so that I know who started a business could use your home with Mary Young, the lingerie brand. Again, I just happened to reach out for her. And it worked out really funny because she was like, hey, actually, we have an opening. Right now our content writer just left. And you know, I know your work. And I so you're on. Oh, okay, so and I immediately got her as a permanent client, which is great. It's not full time hours. So but it gives me enough that I can, you know, do other clients on the side and not stress too much as well.

Alissa Hessler: 48:37

I mean, you manifested it you like went out there and you email people and you follow it up. And I think that that's so helpful for people because oftentimes when you move to a rural area, you have to reinvent what you do for a living. And that can be really scary. And I completely get the confidence thing. Like I also think that like, even when you move away from a city, there's a feeling of like, Can I do those things that I used to do before and even like old colleagues that you have questioning if you can do that anymore from where you are, so I think that's amazing. Well,

Unknown: 49:17

and it's even like I have a close cousin of mine she and her husband moved to a small like she they moved to go up from London, and they were both architects in London and you know, and I remember talking to her about it and being like, how on earth did you do that? And she was like, you forget that you have skills when you're so in one line of work, you think I'm an architect, I can only do architecture. But you know, before you went to that specific of a lane, you could do graphic design you can do you can do so much and you know in this day and age, I feel like our education has very little to do with what we ended up doing. You know, you just have to be adaptable. And I think that is the biggest thing, you have to be open to learning new things. YouTube is an amazing resource. You can learn almost anything. And you can take a course on anything as well. You know, I took some content, writing courses just to brush up on what specifically brands were looking for in this day and age, because it's always changing. And I feel like, as long as you're open to that, and not, you know, scared that you can't learn anymore, you'll be okay.

Alissa Hessler: 50:35

Yeah, such good advice, because I feel like people in cities oftentimes specialize. And when you live in small communities, people wear a lot of hats. And when you're freelancing, or running your own business, you're also wearing a lot of hats, and just recognizing all of the skills that you might have that like, maybe you don't even feel like our skills, and figuring out how you kind of like put that together to make something cost of living wise, like Toronto, Canada is so expensive. Now, I always am looking at real estate prices. I find it fascinating. It's a strange thing that I do. But Canadian cities are completely outrageous. What is your cost of living? Like? Does that help you to not have to feel like you have to take on as much work anymore? Do you feel like your workloads for you and your husband have lifted a bit

Unknown: 51:31

100% I think that plays a huge part in it. I mean, our rent is $750 a month, and that includes everything, internet, all of the above. And our we rented out our 600 square foot apartment in Toronto in the middle of a pandemic when prices were at an all time low for$2,600. So it is wild to think about that difference. And, you know, at the time, I even remember being so frustrated and flustered that we were only renting it for 2500. I was like this is this was a huge loss. But again, it's because we were so in that, you know, in that mindset, it was only when we moved here that I was like, Wait, did we rent it for $2,500? Like that is so much money. And it's tiny, it's not a it's a studio, there's not even walls. And it has definitely played a huge part. I mean, Costa Rica is not a cheap country. It's definitely you know, one of the more expensive Latin American countries, and that's because taxes are higher, they have more social services, free health care. And so it's not a cheap country, but it's definitely affordable. So it depends also how you live. You know, if you're trying to recreate your life in North America, if you're going to price smart and buying all the things that you got back home, then yeah, you're going to end up racking up a pretty large bulk but produce and it's such a pleasure going to the farmers market and you know, buying whatever you want. And it being like $80 were like absolutely everything because farmers markets are notoriously expensive in North America. And which is crazy. But here it's like I can buy you know, like gluten free bread. And like all these like specialty crunchy items that I would never even entertain in Toronto so often because it was so expensive. But here, yeah, it's affordable. And you know, it's funny when we first came here to my parents live in a small town in the mountains. And it's much cheaper than where we are just because we're on the coast. And we would go out for dinner and our dinner for myself, Freddy and Doug would be like $20, including drinks and like entrees and appetizers. And it was just so mind blowing. Because in Toronto, when Doug and I would go out for dinner, we would decide whether or not we were going to have alcohol. And that would depend on what entree we got because we would have to make these deals because the food in Toronto is like unbelievable. It's so good, but it's so expensive. Like you're paying $25 for eggs.

Alissa Hessler: 54:29

If you could give advice to people who see what you have done and they want to follow in your footsteps, what's the immigration process like are you working on like nomadic work visa says, what is that process been like for you?

Unknown: 54:46

So we applied for residency through so Costa Rica has a number of ways you can apply for residency. It's not as complicated as applying in Canada. You basically just have to you know, tick off all the boxes and do all the right things and you will get your residency. So we applied via the way that you have to invest$200,000 into the country. And that can be in a car and property, etc, which we did not have cavea. But my parents when they moved here, my dad, they got residency through my dad's work. And they years later ended up building a house, and they put their house in my name as well. And so I can use that as part of my investment into the country. So and then I can sponsor Doug and Freddie as well. So we got really lucky that way. Another big one that people do is they have a baby in Costa Rica, and then you get smancy. But yeah, that's it. That's a big loophole. There are a few ways i The other thing is, of course, like you don't need residency, the only thing that residency gives you is health care. And you can always get insurance just like you do in the States. And, and, you know, forego that, as well.

Alissa Hessler: 56:05

I wondered what your community struggles with, I wondered if you've noticed the effects of climate change living in a seaside community. They're in Costa Rica. I know you haven't been there for very long, but certainly you've made inroads with people there. And what does that looked like there?

Unknown: 56:21

Yeah, I mean, people have definitely felt the difference and seen the difference. Even in just a year we have. Costa Rica has like an infamously long rainy season, it literally rains from June to November, they've noticed, you know, every year the rain start earlier, or it's a hotter summer, or things like that. And then especially where we are, like we noticed a lot of differences in the reef, and, and fish and what's going on in the waters with the rising temperatures. We have a lot of turtles here, which is amazing. So there's a lot a lot of huge focus on the environment, and a huge focus on reintegration and things like that, which is incredible, because it's so nice that Freddy gets to witness these things. He last week, he just released sea turtles into the ocean, which is so cute. But it's what's been really interesting, because like, we learned that with the rising ocean temperatures, it means that there are more male turtles. So you're not you're not having enough female turtles. And that's just something that's going to continue. And yeah, you have no control over that. And yeah, you see it with, you know, habitat loss. COSTA Costa Rica is one of these incredible countries that it used to be completely deforested. Most of the country has been built back up, and it's now extremely protected. And in our area, we have a cause that are now coming back that used to be extinct from the area. And so we have Yeah, we have Paris with my cars that fly every day. They're so loud was so beautiful. And yeah, we went and we saw though their recovery center. And yeah, there's a really, really big focus on environment, which was another reason we love the country so much. But yeah, in terms of climate change, it's everywhere. Even when we look at buying property here, you know, we're looking at buying property higher up, because you never know, because it's tsunamis or, you know, the change of water levels. And yet, it's very evident.

Alissa Hessler: 58:30

I mean, I think that I wasn't even really as mindful or cognizant of it when I lived in the city because the trash truck came and took your trash away. And now like, we take our trash to the dump, we know how much trash we make, like there's the connection to that. And every time I drive to the next town over, I drive past like an open pit dump. And that changes you because you see your footprint. It's right there. And in your preliminary interview, you talked about how Costa Rica has made you feel like less materialistic. And I wondered how that's kind of shifted and changed your perspective on consumer culture?

Unknown: 59:12

Yeah, I mean, the fact that we don't have Amazon is huge, especially with the newborn, the amount of things I was like, I need this now. And you know, and I would, I would get something immediately, but it's the first time I'm having to really tap into my resource brain and think like, do I really need that and like, what can I use instead of that and been fine? You know, for me was sick last week, and I didn't have PDL like popsicles, and you know, that's something that I would have rushed out and gotten immediately and, oh, you know, I can just make a popsicle and it's not that hard. And, you know, I survived and he survived and, yeah, it's just it's just one of those things that I think with access to everything You forget and you forget how replaceable things can be as well, you know, if something breaks, I can't go out and replace it, but I can fix it, I can get someone to fix it pretty easily. Same thing with cars here. I don't know if you know about cars here, but it's it's a crazy. So Costa Rica like really wants to limit the amount of cars on the road. But as a result, like the used car market is massive, you can buy a car that's like 25 years old and runs perfectly because everything has been replaced, and it's kept in perfect shape. But if you buy a new car here, you're paying almost three times the cost. So even our used car we got for $16,000. And it was it's six years old, which is wild. But that's just you know, the reality of it as well, is that the respect for keeping things and making sure that you're reusing things. I mean, it is frustrating for a lot of people like they're like why do cars cost so much? But I do I do understand it from an environmental standpoint, I think Costa Rica has some hiccups in the sense that it's a bit hypocritical with a little with a few things in the sense, you have this great thing about cars, but then you don't have enough invested in public transport to make it you know, to balance the two out. So so it does have some ways to go with that kind of thing. But it has definitely made us want for less. I think the fact that we don't have seasons helped, I don't need to buy a million clothes. I literally Friday has one pair of shoes, which we only realized was an issue when we went somewhere cold and like his shoes are like the crock type shoes. So they had like holes, and we were like, Oh, I guess we'll put socks and but we've never felt the need to get any more stuff because you don't need it. There's no use for it. In the same way. I remember talking to someone about you know, clothing i i love clothing, I love fashion. And it's nice because I get like I have my like six dresses that I really like and I get to actually wear them like almost every week because that's all I have. Whereas in Toronto, I like rarely repeated an outfit in a couple of weeks.

Alissa Hessler: 1:02:16

Yeah. And that's so normalized. In our society. It's even like normalized to like not wear the same outfit ever again, which is so wild to think about. What exciting things do you have on the horizon from either a personal or business perspective that you would like to share? How can people follow along your journey learn from you work with you any of those things?

Unknown: 1:02:40

I am co hosting a podcast called this could work. And it's kind of a self help reality show type of podcast where we we just look at different self care techniques and practices and talk to experts about them and see if that they're all that they're cracked up to be. So you can find that on Spotify or iTunes. And yeah, and then a person though, we are going to Columbia this weekend. So we're very excited for that it's going to be even hotter than here. But we're looking forward to all the good food.

Alissa Hessler: 1:03:19

It has been such a pleasure Mollica to connect with you. I hope that I get to come to Costa Rica one day and see you that would be

Unknown: 1:03:30

Oh, I would love that. Yeah, as the pleasure is all mine.

Alissa Hessler: 1:03:35

Thank you again Mollica for joining us on the show some of my key takeaways from this episode. According to Darwin, the species that survive are the ones that are the most adaptable. I feel like Mollica has embodied that sentiment in a huge way. This has paved the way for her successful transitions in her family, career and home. Moving to a different country, changing careers and becoming a new parent all in the same year required a huge amount of adaptability and flexibility. Second, moving to a remote area outside of an urban center, while striving to keep your city career requires you to work harder in many ways. But it can also help you tap into more entrepreneurial skills. Looking out for yourself reaching out to others. And learning to sell yourself requires a separate and new skill set that needs tending. Especially if you've only ever worked as an employee. Believe in yourself, stay the course and the work will come. And lastly, community is so integral to mental health and wellbeing. Loneliness is one of the most devastating epidemics of modern time. Recent studies have shown that more than half of adults are considered lonely and For obvious reasons COVID has made matters much worse. However, learning about the more collective culture in Costa Rica, the familiarity, the spontaneous Hangouts, a celebration of children and parenthood, it makes me wish we could import a little bit of that spontaneity and connectedness into American culture. Hi, friends, thank you so much for tuning into another episode of the urban Exodus podcast. This is a listener supported program that is only made possible through your continued support. And if you haven't already, we would really love it if you'd leave us a five star review on Apple podcasts, or Spotify, or whatever service you listen on. And please recommend urban access to your friends. An enormous thank you to my incredible producer Simone Leon, and my amazing editor Johnny Sol, and my music man, Benjamin Thoreau, and thanks to all of you for listening, I'm Alissa Hessler. And this is the urban Exodus